An interview with
Dr. Carl Greer
Some lives follow a straight line; others, like that of Dr. Carl Greer PhD, PsyD, unfold like a map drawn by both reason and wonder. Once a successful business leader, he stepped away from the boardroom to follow a deeper calling: to understand the mind, heal the spirit, and help others awaken to the stories that shape their lives.
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A clinical psychologist, Jungian analyst, shamanic practitioner, and philanthropist, funding over 60 charities and more than 2,000 past and current Greer scholars. He has taught at the C.G. Jung Institute of Chicago and been on staff at the Replogle Center for Counseling and Well-Being. Dr. Greer blends modern science with ancient wisdom in a way that invites transformation.
Through his five award-winning books, he has guided readers toward self-discovery, empowering them to change the narrative of their past and live with greater purpose. In this conversation, Dr. Greer shares the insight, practices, and profound truths he has gathered on his journey-reminding us that it’s never too late to become the author of one’s own life. His new book is Go Within to Change Your Life: A Hidden Wisdom Workbook for Personal Transformation. Learn more at CarlGreer.com.
You have had an incredibly diverse career—starting in business and finance, then transitioning into psychology, Jungian analysis, and shamanic practices. What inspired you to make such a profound shift?
For the first part of my life and career, I was goal-oriented and motivated to achieve. I wanted to accumulate accolades and other evidence of my hard work and dedication. In my forties, I became restless and unsatisfied with the life I was living. I began exploring psychology and indigenous spiritual traditions, interests I’d abandoned in my younger years because I didn’t feel they were practical pursuits. That choice led me to have a whole new way of being and a different set of goals and objectives.
How has your background in finance and business influenced your work in psychology and shamanic healing?
In finance and business, I focused on action and results. I wanted to quickly resolve a problem and then move on to the next challenge. As a boss, I was often the one to suggest solutions. When I became a clinical psychologist, Jungian analyst, and shamanic practitioner, I had to learn to step back and support others in finding their own solutions. I also had to be flexible and let them work through their issues at their own pace.
Having said that, I benefited from having worked in business, where I had to hold myself accountable for results. In doing healing work, I periodically checked in with myself and my clients as to whether or not what we were doing was helpful.
What were some of your biggest challenges when moving from the corporate world into healing and philanthropy?
I began studying to be a psychologist while I was running a business with many employees, which was challenging. I had to compartmentalize and learn to manage my time in ways that I wouldn’t have had to had I just stayed in the business world.
As a Jungian analyst and a shamanic practitioner, how do you see these two disciplines complement each other?
Most Jungian analysts and shamanic healers believe our thoughts and actions are influenced by factors we’re not conscious of. A Jungian might think of those as coming from the personal unconscious or collective unconscious (the archetypal realms). Shamanic healers are likely to think they’re coming from the spirit world. Also, shamans believe everything is interconnected, and we can relate to the invisible worlds through being in nature and relating to its spirits, engaging them, negotiating with them, and letting them inform us. Similarly, Jungians believe we can relate to and be informed by unseen energies, ones that are unconscious.
What role does spirituality play in mental health and overall well-being?
Feeling that we’re part of something larger than ourselves can help us feel less alone, give us a sense of meaning and purpose, and allow us to feel we’re seen, heard, and supported. It can be easier to feel that way when we use practices that make us feel connected to that unseen something larger—such as spending time in nature, meditating, doing guided visualizations or shamanic journeys, or performing rituals.
Can you share a transformative experience you’ve had—personally or with a client—through shamanic practices?
Once while taking a shamanic journey, I knew I was about to go to the Holy of Holies, a place where I would receive an important revelation for me, when the process was interrupted by external factors. Afterward, because that had frustrated me, I meditated on the timing of things, seeking insights. I took away from that meditation that when the time is right, it’s right, and when it’s not, it’s not. I realized that you shouldn’t stay in a situation for too long but also you also shouldn’t abandon it too quickly. That made it easier for me to accept my disappointment at missing out on what I was sure would be a transformative experience. After that, I was more conscious of having to be patient in some situations but make decisions more quickly in others.
How can individuals integrate Jungian and shamanic principles into their daily lives for greater balance and self-awareness in today’s fast-paced world?
First, they need to slow down and pause to reflect on what’s going on in their lives, getting out of “monkey brain” so they can access their inner world. There, they can encounter insights and energies for transformation and bring them back into everyday life. Ways to access one’s inner world include such practices as working with dreams, journaling, and engaging the figures, symbols, and images they encounter. One way to do this is to dialogue, having a conversation with what was encountered so you can learn from it. You might be taken aback by the powerful insights you discover.
That said, it’s important to integrate what we learn into how we live every day. We can feel full of momentum and intention to transform our lives after having an eye-opening dream or dialogue with a figure encountered on a shamanic journey. Afterward, that feeling can change if we don’t become more mindful, taking pauses to make choices that are better for us than ones we’ve made previously. And making small changes around the margins can add up to big changes over time.
That’s why I believe in combining what I call expanded-awareness practices with journaling, setting goals, and developing new habits. We now have a lot of research on habits that can help us stick to our resolutions and make choices that are different from the ones we’d make had we not done the expanded-awareness work.
Many people already journal, but journaling that’s effective for transformation is less about accessing the analytical brain and recording the facts of your life and more about writing expressively about experiences you’ve had and thoughts you’re entertaining. You might write about your dreams or what happened when you took a shamanic journey. Reflecting on what your imaginative, creative brain has to share with you can be invaluable for increasing self-awareness and sticking to any new goals you set for yourself.
Your philanthropic efforts have funded over 60 charities and supported more than 2,000 Greer Scholars. What drives your passion for giving back?
In significant ways, my studies of Jungian psychology and particularly shamanism made me see that what I’d been doing, how I’d been living, wasn’t as fulfilling as sharing and giving back to the community in a tangible way. I thought back to how good it felt as a teenager doing charitable work through my church, or as a young adult summer camp counselor helping underprivileged teenagers to have learning experiences that were often closed off to kids like them. I started to find ways to give back and ultimately started a foundation with my wife that provides support to dozens of organizations. Helping those who are disadvantaged or suffering in some way brings me more satisfaction than accumulating things—money, “stuff,” and so on—does.
People running the charities we work with have good intentions, but some of them may not have the knowledge or skills to make the most of their resources and to be as cost-effective as they could be in the work they do. I’ve shared with them insights gained from my experiences as a businessman so these organizations can have an even greater impact.
What qualities do you look for when selecting Greer Scholars, and what impact do you hope to have on their futures?
I want the Greer Scholars to come from historically disadvantaged groups. My goal is to help them set the foundation for successful careers that allow them to live comfortably and potentially give back themselves. I know that STEM field jobs are a great way to achieve that goal. I’ve found that when underprivileged students are given support, they end up doing every bit as well in school and post-graduation as their peers from more advantaged backgrounds.
The way I measure the success of the program is whether the students’ academic averages improve, they remain on a STEM track, they graduate within four years or closer to four years than five or six, and they end up in well-paying jobs—ones that are better than what they would likely have with a different major. I’ve compared the numbers to those of peers who were not in the program, which has helped me adjust it over the years, leading to even better results.
Greer Scholars get individual tutoring and access to research opportunities, internships, and cohort-building activities. They come together to socialize, bond, and help each other, and they’re introduced to national groups like the National Society of Black Engineers. These relatively low-cost interventions have such a great impact that in some of the universities where we have Greer Scholars programs, administrators have made these types of opportunities available to students who aren’t Greer Scholars. Consequently, those students are achieving more favorable outcomes, too.
Can you share a success story of a scholar or organization that has particularly inspired you?
One of the first Greer scholars at Lehigh University (a predominantly white university from which I graduated) was a young black man from a low-income household. He was elected president of his freshman class, and soon after he graduated, he began work as a management consultant and was asked to be one of the Lehigh trustees.
You have taught at prestigious institutions like Columbia University and the C.G. Jung Institute of Chicago. What have you found most rewarding about educating others?
I like the idea of my presenting material, be it as a businessperson or a psychologist, in a way that makes a difference in a person’s life. That makes me feel good, whether I’ve influenced them to have more success in their careers, more rewarding relationships, or less stress and unhappiness.
What inspired you to write your books, and what message do you hope readers take away from them?
I’m aware that some people don’t take their yoga off the mat, so to speak, and don’t bring their spiritual practices into their everyday lives. I hope that my books will help them apply what they’ve gained from shamanic and Jungian practices to their everyday lives in ways that are useful for them. I realize that change is hard and many who want to make changes just don’t have the time, wherewithal, or energy to do so. I’m hoping that some of my readers do make changes that they feel are positive, and I’ve gotten feedback from some of them that this indeed is what’s happened.
If you could recommend one essential Jungian or shamanic practice to readers looking to deepen their self-awareness, what would it be?
A good starting point is to make the time to periodically reflect on how your life is going and how you’re feeling about your life. Write down what you’re experiencing. Then, engage in some of those expanded-awareness techniques I mentioned earlier so you can make changes that part of you wants to make but, for various reasons, have been unable to do so.
You might stop yourself every two or three hours to check in with what you’re feeling and thinking. Record the data, and when you’ve done this for a week or so, look at what you’ve written and see if you can observe any patterns. When were you feeling anxious? When did you feel enthusiastic? Then, imagine how you’d like your life to be if you weren’t bound by these patterns. What changes would you have to make?
As I describe in Go Within to Change Your Life, there are other Jungian and shamanic practices that can help you gain self-awareness, such as identifying hidden contracts and stories you’re not aware of that are shaping your everyday experiences. Once you have new ideas about what you’d like to create, what you value, and what your life could be like were you to make changes, you’ve laid the groundwork for personal transformation.
Are you particularly excited about any upcoming projects, books, or philanthropic initiatives?
In the book writing realm, I’m working on a book for therapists and clients that shares some of my takeaways from my work and life as a Jungian analyst and shamanic healer. I’m writing about how I conceptualize the work and what I think is and isn’t effective for helping clients. I’m including questions I found helpful to reflect on to ensure that my work helped those I was treating or assisting in their healing process. Simultaneously, I’m working on workbooks similar to Go Within to Change Your Life that will focus on relationships and spirituality.
As for my philanthropic endeavors, I’m trying to make home healthcare more accessible and effective so people don’t have to spend as much time in emergency rooms and hospitals. I’m also working with others who are committed to finding and sharing more effective ways to promote prevention and wellness.
Looking back on your journey, what advice would you give to someone seeking to make a meaningful change in their life, as you have?
You have to take time to reflect on where you’ve been, where you are, and where you’re going to give yourself the opportunity to course correct and change the direction or momentum of your life. You might like the path you’re on, but want to change what you’re doing or the pace of your forward movement.
I also feel that if you want to make meaningful changes that will lead to a life of greater purpose and fulfillment, it’s best to nurture and grow the qualities of patience, compassion, empathy, and acceptance. It’s not always easy to feel and express those things, but if you can, the payoff can be big. It certainly has been for me. I was very successful according to society’s ideas about what that means for a man, but I’m more satisfied with the life I’m living now, even as I continue to strive to be more in alignment with my values on a day-to-day basis. I’ll never be perfect, but I’m certainly less restless and living less robotically. The work I do vitalizes me and keeps me going despite the challenges of growing older and any health issues I have now at 84. I plan to continue on this path for as long as I can.
Special Thanks to:
Carl Greer
Photography: Christine Paul & Heidi Aubin
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